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	<title>Comments on: Bloggers Block&#8230;  items of 2006</title>
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	<description>Perspectives on Media, Climate, Energy, Politics... in Port Alberni, BC, Canada, the World</description>
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		<title>By: jane m</title>
		<link>http://www.murkyview.com/archives/2006/01/09/bloggers-block-item-of-2006/comment-page-1/#comment-4657</link>
		<dc:creator>jane m</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jan 2006 00:31:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.murkyview.com/archives/2006/01/09/bloggers-block-item-of-2006/#comment-4657</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not saying that social welfare has destroyed any liberal Euro economies...YET.  I&#039;m saying that in the next decades it will be increasingly unsustainable to provide the same level of social benefits to people who see themselves as entitled to be taken care of while they live the &quot;good life&quot; of short work weeks and long annual holidays and labor contracts which make it impossible to lay off workers when demand is down. The unemployment among youthful workers is hit the hardest by such unrealistic practices, by the way.  

In the US, our problem is (defense...we gotta give up that habit of protecting Europe pronto IMO and) social security which according to the liberals is in quite good condition...duh, I guess they are math challenged.  We need to keep control of defense spending and government waste (aka pork barrell spending) while we keep n social programs at the current level. (Scary thought, Chris, the Red States have a much higher birth rate than the Blue.  The crazy right-wing red-necks are reproducing themselves  like  &quot;fundalmentalists&quot; in the ME, heh.) 

You are quite correct that cheap foreign labor undercuts most developed nation&#039;s economies.  That is not going to change.  The world now has a &quot;global&quot; economy and it&#039;s not going to get any better.  The underdeveloped nations are seeking a piece of the pie - now Asia, but soon, in this century, African nations will join in.  South America is already making lots of noise about social justice which means they believe that if they fight capitalism, they will get ahead economically...duh, fat chance. 

There is an awful lot of &quot;denial&quot; goin&#039; on in liberal mind set.  You, yourself, are not a fan of cheap foreign labor, etc but it&#039;s all part of the social justice equation that you guys are always goin&#039; on about.  I believe in justice too, to some extent, but I&#039;m a realist in seeubg that the labor unions of any nation are not going to stop this labor competition.  You might as well have out-lawed motor cars in the early 20th century because it was putting buggy manufacturers out of business not too mention black-smiths and buggy whip makers.  You cannot stop technology and you cannot take western economies back to the 1950s.  We have to learn to live in a different manner and run our social management in light of the economic realities imposed upon us by a force bigger than any one leader or nation or super-power.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not saying that social welfare has destroyed any liberal Euro economies&#8230;YET.  I&#8217;m saying that in the next decades it will be increasingly unsustainable to provide the same level of social benefits to people who see themselves as entitled to be taken care of while they live the &#8220;good life&#8221; of short work weeks and long annual holidays and labor contracts which make it impossible to lay off workers when demand is down. The unemployment among youthful workers is hit the hardest by such unrealistic practices, by the way.  </p>
<p>In the US, our problem is (defense&#8230;we gotta give up that habit of protecting Europe pronto IMO and) social security which according to the liberals is in quite good condition&#8230;duh, I guess they are math challenged.  We need to keep control of defense spending and government waste (aka pork barrell spending) while we keep n social programs at the current level. (Scary thought, Chris, the Red States have a much higher birth rate than the Blue.  The crazy right-wing red-necks are reproducing themselves  like  &#8220;fundalmentalists&#8221; in the ME, heh.) </p>
<p>You are quite correct that cheap foreign labor undercuts most developed nation&#8217;s economies.  That is not going to change.  The world now has a &#8220;global&#8221; economy and it&#8217;s not going to get any better.  The underdeveloped nations are seeking a piece of the pie &#8211; now Asia, but soon, in this century, African nations will join in.  South America is already making lots of noise about social justice which means they believe that if they fight capitalism, they will get ahead economically&#8230;duh, fat chance. </p>
<p>There is an awful lot of &#8220;denial&#8221; goin&#8217; on in liberal mind set.  You, yourself, are not a fan of cheap foreign labor, etc but it&#8217;s all part of the social justice equation that you guys are always goin&#8217; on about.  I believe in justice too, to some extent, but I&#8217;m a realist in seeubg that the labor unions of any nation are not going to stop this labor competition.  You might as well have out-lawed motor cars in the early 20th century because it was putting buggy manufacturers out of business not too mention black-smiths and buggy whip makers.  You cannot stop technology and you cannot take western economies back to the 1950s.  We have to learn to live in a different manner and run our social management in light of the economic realities imposed upon us by a force bigger than any one leader or nation or super-power.</p>
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		<title>By: chrisale</title>
		<link>http://www.murkyview.com/archives/2006/01/09/bloggers-block-item-of-2006/comment-page-1/#comment-4656</link>
		<dc:creator>chrisale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jan 2006 22:40:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.murkyview.com/archives/2006/01/09/bloggers-block-item-of-2006/#comment-4656</guid>
		<description>Yes... German unemployment is still 11% but most analysts are saying this year will be an improvement for Germany.  Here&#039;s a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D8F1ORIO0.htm?campaign_id=apn_home_down&amp;chan=db&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;BusinessWeek article&lt;/a&gt; from today.

Also, if you take the time to look at The Economist website for the countries in question, you would see that between 2000 and 2003 (inclusice), the &quot;labour costs per hour&quot; for France and Canada is consistently lower than the US (by as much as half in the case of France).  So I&#039;m not sure where you get this &quot;social welfare is destroying the economy&quot; stuff.

What&#039;s destroying the economy in all western economies, is, in my opinion, cheap labour and production in foreign lands.  The US is losing out to Canada for new car plants for example... the Europeans are losing out to Asia/China... etc etc.

As far as the Canadian economy is concerned.  We&#039;ve had surpluses for the past 7 years and counting... so I fail to see how our social programs are all of a sudden going to jump up and destroy our economy.

As for birth rates.  yes, the United States is &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004395.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;among the highest in the industrialised world&lt;/a&gt;.  However, this doesn&#039;t by any stretch mean the US will somehow escape the senior Baby Boomers.  As I pointed out above... the increase in $$ spent on labour per hour is directly correlated to health care increases.  The US is already higher than many European &quot;socialist&quot; governments in terms of health care costs... just like at the fiasco at the major car makers over health care.

This is a problem the US, Europe and Canada will all have to deal with for the next 20-30 years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes&#8230; German unemployment is still 11% but most analysts are saying this year will be an improvement for Germany.  Here&#8217;s a <a href="http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D8F1ORIO0.htm?campaign_id=apn_home_down&#038;chan=db" rel="nofollow">BusinessWeek article</a> from today.</p>
<p>Also, if you take the time to look at The Economist website for the countries in question, you would see that between 2000 and 2003 (inclusice), the &#8220;labour costs per hour&#8221; for France and Canada is consistently lower than the US (by as much as half in the case of France).  So I&#8217;m not sure where you get this &#8220;social welfare is destroying the economy&#8221; stuff.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s destroying the economy in all western economies, is, in my opinion, cheap labour and production in foreign lands.  The US is losing out to Canada for new car plants for example&#8230; the Europeans are losing out to Asia/China&#8230; etc etc.</p>
<p>As far as the Canadian economy is concerned.  We&#8217;ve had surpluses for the past 7 years and counting&#8230; so I fail to see how our social programs are all of a sudden going to jump up and destroy our economy.</p>
<p>As for birth rates.  yes, the United States is <a href="http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004395.html" rel="nofollow">among the highest in the industrialised world</a>.  However, this doesn&#8217;t by any stretch mean the US will somehow escape the senior Baby Boomers.  As I pointed out above&#8230; the increase in $$ spent on labour per hour is directly correlated to health care increases.  The US is already higher than many European &#8220;socialist&#8221; governments in terms of health care costs&#8230; just like at the fiasco at the major car makers over health care.</p>
<p>This is a problem the US, Europe and Canada will all have to deal with for the next 20-30 years.</p>
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		<title>By: jane m</title>
		<link>http://www.murkyview.com/archives/2006/01/09/bloggers-block-item-of-2006/comment-page-1/#comment-4655</link>
		<dc:creator>jane m</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jan 2006 18:52:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.murkyview.com/archives/2006/01/09/bloggers-block-item-of-2006/#comment-4655</guid>
		<description>&quot;France is still run by unions that refuse to believe that a 35 hour work week will sustain their economy.&quot;

Correction:

France is still run by unions that continue to believe that a 35 hour work week will sustain their economy (and their government social contract).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;France is still run by unions that refuse to believe that a 35 hour work week will sustain their economy.&#8221;</p>
<p>Correction:</p>
<p>France is still run by unions that continue to believe that a 35 hour work week will sustain their economy (and their government social contract).</p>
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		<title>By: jane m</title>
		<link>http://www.murkyview.com/archives/2006/01/09/bloggers-block-item-of-2006/comment-page-1/#comment-4654</link>
		<dc:creator>jane m</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jan 2006 18:48:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.murkyview.com/archives/2006/01/09/bloggers-block-item-of-2006/#comment-4654</guid>
		<description># 5) The last I heard, Germany and France both have double digit unemployment and nothing has changed much in either country to really have an impact on that fact.  Germany exceeds it&#039;s EU budget limits consistently and France is still run by unions that refuse to believe that a 35 hour work week will sustain their economy.  You can read all the economist predictions you want, I&#039;ll believe it when I see it (that France and Germany have turned the economy around).  Plus the low birthrate impact is especially important to countries that have an unsustainable social contract for more and more government services.  For instance, how will Canada pay for day care? - for decades into the future? You Liberals don&#039;t seem to get it. It&#039;s all idealism with no practical formulas for sustaining your insatiable demand for more and more reliance on the government to take care of all your life&#039;s requirements.  

#2)  Easy, we are more conservative than progressive here in the US.  The conservatives are far from finished and my gut instinct tells me that the congress will stay in the hands of the GOP.  Most of the issues raised by the Dems are so much hype and voters are more astute than you might like to think.  My &quot;gut&quot; (like yours) tells me that newspaper headlines and left wing blogs don&#039;t tell the truth and the voters will not be convinced by what is being said and hyped at the moment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p># 5) The last I heard, Germany and France both have double digit unemployment and nothing has changed much in either country to really have an impact on that fact.  Germany exceeds it&#8217;s EU budget limits consistently and France is still run by unions that refuse to believe that a 35 hour work week will sustain their economy.  You can read all the economist predictions you want, I&#8217;ll believe it when I see it (that France and Germany have turned the economy around).  Plus the low birthrate impact is especially important to countries that have an unsustainable social contract for more and more government services.  For instance, how will Canada pay for day care? &#8211; for decades into the future? You Liberals don&#8217;t seem to get it. It&#8217;s all idealism with no practical formulas for sustaining your insatiable demand for more and more reliance on the government to take care of all your life&#8217;s requirements.  </p>
<p>#2)  Easy, we are more conservative than progressive here in the US.  The conservatives are far from finished and my gut instinct tells me that the congress will stay in the hands of the GOP.  Most of the issues raised by the Dems are so much hype and voters are more astute than you might like to think.  My &#8220;gut&#8221; (like yours) tells me that newspaper headlines and left wing blogs don&#8217;t tell the truth and the voters will not be convinced by what is being said and hyped at the moment.</p>
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		<title>By: chrisale</title>
		<link>http://www.murkyview.com/archives/2006/01/09/bloggers-block-item-of-2006/comment-page-1/#comment-4653</link>
		<dc:creator>chrisale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jan 2006 17:30:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.murkyview.com/archives/2006/01/09/bloggers-block-item-of-2006/#comment-4653</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d be interested to know your reasoning behind #2 and #5... #5 especially considering the US (and Canada, and every other country involved in WWII) is facing the same explosion of Senior age baby boomers. (including China... which has a massive health care problem on it&#039;s hands)

According to the outlooks in the Economist... unemployment has fallen in both Germany and France and all the countries you mentioned are forecast to have growing economies... between 1.5 and 2.8%... the UK is projected to contract by 1.7%... Canada to grow by 3.6 and US grow by 4.3

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.economist.com/countries/index.cfm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.economist.com/countries/index.cfm&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d be interested to know your reasoning behind #2 and #5&#8230; #5 especially considering the US (and Canada, and every other country involved in WWII) is facing the same explosion of Senior age baby boomers. (including China&#8230; which has a massive health care problem on it&#8217;s hands)</p>
<p>According to the outlooks in the Economist&#8230; unemployment has fallen in both Germany and France and all the countries you mentioned are forecast to have growing economies&#8230; between 1.5 and 2.8%&#8230; the UK is projected to contract by 1.7%&#8230; Canada to grow by 3.6 and US grow by 4.3</p>
<p><a href="http://www.economist.com/countries/index.cfm" rel="nofollow">http://www.economist.com/countries/index.cfm</a></p>
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